Wednesday, January 11, 2006

Exchanging Pleasantries with an Islamist

I have recently had the pleasure of exchaging some thoughts with an Islamist from Pakistan. The entire thread may be of interest, although I confess that I was repeating myself towards the end there, partly because said Islamist did not seem to hear or understand what I had to say.

I include below a copy of my last post on the thread.

I think that this exchange should speak for itself in terms of the gulf not just in ideas and values, but of what passes for discourse, logic and analysis in the two cultures. So, ladies and gentlemen, I give you my last headbutt at a rather thick wall:

(Maybe someone who speaks Urdu would be so kind as to translate this post? It is important that people like Tit understand the message here. It may in the end save his poor life, and that of his countrymen and co-religionists from US and allied military might)


Your lack of logic, inconsistent conspiracy theories and other mindless, fanatical shit is exactly the problem here.The problem is mainly yours, I might add, keeping you stupid, poor, sexually twisted, angry, powerless, deluded and, as I keep trying to helpfully point out,increasingly unsafe.

The last point is the case because the problem is also sadly the West's, and the governments of civilised countries will be forced to deal with this issue with this rather sharply sooner or later.

The problem is certainly not just you, it is your whole barbaric, misogynistic, murderous and intolerant 7th century religion and culture, in which civilised people are a small and frightened minority, most of whom are desperate to get out. It is not your fault, you have been brainwashed and it is the death penalty if you try to leave the religion (not that you even
realise that you should of course)

So, lets take it slowly now, just one more time, becuase you still do not get it (perhaps it is your English, maybe ask someone with better English to translate this for you ?):

1. Civilised world:

US Nuclear arsenal: tens of thousands of warheads, thousands of strategic warheads. Also British, French, Israeli, Indian arsenals. All countries having problems with you Islam.Lets not forget the Russian arsenal either, they are having some trouble with you guys as well.

NONE of this has been used on Islamic targets. Yet.

2. Islam:

Pakistan: Maybe 20 warheads, all accounted for.Iran: maybe one or two nukes already, one on the way. Al Qaeda: maybe some ex-Russian suitcase nukes.None of this has been used on civilised targets. Yet.

Eight years ago section 2 was zero. Now it is growing, and look at what a wonderful peaceful, civilised place Pakistan is, and how secure and localised Pakistani nuclear technology was kept, and how much justice Muhammed Kadeer Khan has recieved for flagrant proliferation.And look at the nice things the people of Pakistan have to say about us, and their growing confidence in taking us on militarily !We have certainly learned from that.You are quite right, you are far too full of faith and commitment to a rather frightening, violent creed. I am sure that there are people in the Pentagon who have taken good notice of how willing you guys are to die as long as you take some of us down with you, how much you hate us, and how important it is for you that we go down.It must thus be increasingly insufferable to individuals in positions of power in the West to allow you guys to play with nuclear toys.

Now read the Belmont Club article I linked to earlier in this thread, and ask yourself whether your Faith and Commitment are really assets, when all you are doing is trying to convince the West that you will never be civilised, that you are obsessed with war and conquest, that you believe us to be evil, deserving punishment and ready to fall. While the meagre Islamic nuclear arsenal is small it is certainly growing, and you are capable of enough mischief with it already.

The massive Western nuclear arsenal sits unused, but ready.So too do stockpiles of hardly used Fuel Air Explosives (remember the Daisy Cutter at Tora Bora?)In fact, there has been precious little use of napalm, cluster munitions, tank flechette rounds, howitzer artillery and many other weapons that would change the odds in Iraq or Gaza in a jiffy, and transform things.So, to reiterate, we (the West) have been very nice to you (Islam) indeed. There are plenty of depths we will not sink to, even to our detriment. Can you say the same ?The difficulty in Iraq is that civilians are being spared, and solid rules of engagement observed. The US is fighting house to house where Assad the Elder would have just levelled the city. (cf Hama)

Saddam and Assed know what language an Islamic population undrestands. The Americans choose so speak a more enlightened language, and you interpret this largesse as weakness. More the fool you, their patience is not infinite. The Israelis pulled out of South Lebanon because it is very hard to target guerillas behind human shields without hitting civilians. It would have been a whole lot easier to depopulate South Lebanon with carpet bombing, but Israel is far too humane and noble for that. Israel can turn South Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank into smouldering slag heaps in hours. And that is without using nukes. But they are too civilised, too humane to do something like that. Yet.

Civilisation has no shortage of weapons. We also have, at present, a huge supply of decency and humanity. It is not infinite. Do not mistake Western kindness for weakness. Do not mistake Western transparency and democratic politics for impotence. Do not mistake our lack of militancy to a lack of commitment. Hitler did the same, at his peril. We have been through this before. Our leaders do take a while to sort things out. We leave our decisions to appointed politicians and beurocrats, and our fighting to well regulated armies with fearsome weapons. This is more than enough.We do not need to join militias and go on jihads. Westerners have faith and commitment too, to something more proven, powerful and tangible than your false god and his murderous pedophile prophet. All we need to do is assess, persuade, vote, and then stand back and watch.

So Learn. Quickly.

Too harsh ? I suspect that the message did not sink it. Nice to try regardless. And I am genuinely interested in saving the poor fellow's life, and those of his co-religionists, before someone in the Pentagon or Kremlin gets an itchy trigger finger after the next Sept 11, Beslan, 7/7, Seder bombing etc etc etc and presses The Button.

Scary ? I am saying that in all matters of violence, I rely purely on my democratically elected governement and military, and those of allied civilised countries . I am not planning or condoning any illegal or vigilante act of any kind. I am a peaceful, law-abiding citizen of a country that is part of a fearsome culture, the West. My democratically elected politicians and Army do my fighting for me. Thus the most forceful acts that I perform are voting and persuading others.

Hateful ? Look at how Germany and Holland are now treating prospective ROP citizens. CIFA at the Pentagon is finally studying Islam as a strategic motivator (What tooke them so long?). Most importantly, watch what France will do, after the 2007 elections...

Racist ? I have a problem with a specific ideology and culture, not a race. I should be free to say what I like about ideas, and what I thing of those who hold them. Individuals are free to change their ideologies and cultures. This is why Islamophobia (a good word, actually) is not racist in the least.
Why can we criticise ideologies like Communism and Nazism but not Islam ? Why can all sorts of mockery and criticism be levelled at Christianity and Christians, but not Islam and Muslims ?
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